Thursday, January 01, 2009

Wheel Set Up


I recieved some interesting statistics on the latest poll which involved which wheels you prefer. A surprising number regularly use soft compound tires, which I generally avoid like the plague. I suspect a lot of these users are doing shows that are mostly, if not all, on stage. Soft compound tires tend to be a little fragile for location work (at least the locations I end up in). I'd like to hear from some of you soft tire users about your reasons and the conditions you usually work under. I worked for a DP a few years ago who insisted on soft compound tires. I protested that they wouldn't hold up very well in the locations we would be working in and that it would cost some time to change tires every time we went out, but he insisted. At the end of the show, the tires I turned in were barely even round anymore. They were chewed to pieces.
For years (back when I mainly used the Hybrid) I would put on all pneumatics at the start of a show and just leave them on for the run. The Hustler has made it possible to mix and match a set of pneumatics on the outside and medium softs on the inside. To get on track, just put it in crab and turn all the track tires to the outside and roll on. I have grown to like the "all pneumatics set up" less and less over the years because it seems to increase bounce especially on really tight lenses. I really like the medium softs. They seem to perform really well on dance floor without the jiggle that pneumatics have, however slight, and also hold up well on locations with rough surfaces. The combination of medium and pneumatic that the Hustler offers gives just the right amount of stability and softness for seams and joints.
So, soft tire users, drop a line and let us know your secrets.
I've gotten a lot more "Happy New Year" messages on my Blackberry from fellow Dolly Grips this year than ever. Thanks to all and Happy New Year to you too!
PS- Don't forget to try out the new forum! Let's get some lively discussions going.

104 comments:

GHB said...

I just recently found myself in a scissor lift blackwrapping nook lights with the founder of this blog and I was filling in for his B-dolly grip on the last day of their prep for his new show. We were waiting to go to Chapman to check in the dollies and helping out with some of the last minute prep of their stages and he told me about this site and I think it's the greatest idea and well overdue. I hope I can learn some new things and share some info and tips that make everyone that's serious about being a dolly grip better and give us all a better name.
Through much experimentation and discussion with a few other dolly grips, I like to use this set up and find it pretty flawless in most situations. On the Hustler IV I roll the pneumatics on the inside and the medium compound track wheels on the outside at all times. Works great for dance floor moves. The pneumatics give the give over the cracks and the harder wheels give you the stability on the outside as the weight on the dolly shifts as you turn and stop and start. Plus as the added bonus, you're already ready to roll right up on track and keep the wheels in a configuration that you can change gears and get into conventional which is the recommended gear for straight track. On any of the Pee-Wee dollies, I use the medium wheels all the time unless I know we're gonna be in a dirt lot or out in the woods where you just kinda need pneumatics to get the dolly to roll at all.
The most important thing, and what I think the whole purpose of this blog is, is that what really makes the difference is how you push the dolly. The wheel set-up is secondary to taking the time to perfect the slow-but-timely start, the soft-but-timed-out stop and the graceful turn during a six point dance floor move. If you practice and get these skills down, having the right wheels becomes a bonus in your advantage.

D said...

Thanks GHB for the comments. It's good to know we can still blackwrap a nooklight with the best of them. GBH is a great dolly grip who was kind enough to come in and check out the Peewee for me. He did a big movies that is just being released and it's a pleasure to have him join us here!

D said...

GHB- great comments on your wheel set up. I do the same with the Hustler 4, only the opposite, with the pneumatics on the outside for everything but track. It probably makes no difference in performance, that's just the way I started doing it and have kept it that way but I may change it up a little and try them the way you do, with track wheels on the outside.
D

Azurgrip said...

I haven't had the pleasure of using the Huslter IV yet, so combos for me. I've been a Chapman "soft tire" fan forever, even pre pneumatics. If I am doing an "all field / out of town show", I will leave pneumatics on. I do hate changing tires around, as there's never enough time to do it.

I wish Chapman would incorporate something like Fisher's recent change over to the tools free system rather than the clips for two reasons: a) they don't work with pneumatics and b) they have a tendency to go flying when you kick them and don't have spares close by.

I hate using pneumatics on dance floor as there's too much surface contact and no amount of baby power will kill the squeeks. Also I've seen the same "flat spots" develop if there's too much weight over one corner of a chassis.

I've heard that Chapman is doing away with "Hard" Tires and the newly developed "Medium" softs will be the standard. I forget the Durometer (shore) Number.

I'm a Super Softs guy all the way. I can look after them pretty good, and they've always gotten me out of crappy track binds.

I've tried different tire combos on the Fisher Ten, but it's been almost three years since I've used it and can remember what worked...

On a side note, the first pneumatics I used were designed by Mark Manchester and Mark Irwin for director David Cronenberg. wearby you had to remove the entire wheel assembly and reshim to accomodate the wheel locks. They ran on 6" pneumatics that could not run on track nor were there speed wheels back then, so you had to plan ahead for change over time. I wonder if Mark has any photos... if you're reading this - email me.

TD said...

When it comes to PeeWee/Hybrid set ups I tend to leave mediums on the Hybrid and pneumatics on the PeeWee since the PeeWee is my do anything, go anywhere dolly. However, I've noticed that the pneumatics tend to squeak more on both dance floor and track. Offsetting the operators weight with a bunch of bags usually helps but doesn't always stop the noise. Any suggestions (besides to use baby powder or switch to skates)? One thing that seems to help a bit on track is to release the tab on the offending wheel, allowing it to rotate a bit for a better fit on the track. However, this doesn't work all the time.

As for Fishers - I usually stick with the standard pneumatic set that comes from the house. If I need to get lower than the low mode+skate wheels will allow then I'll throw on the track wheels and ride straight on the track.

Here's a question: when doing compound dance floor moves, how do you guys prevent chasis shake when realigning the wheels to shift and move again? Any tips or tricks?

D said...

Hi TD, Welcome. I used to always keep pneumatics on the Peewee also. I'm beginning to rethink that though now with the mediums. The pneumatics can be a little restrictive for space and closing up the outriggers for doorways etc.and frankly I'm tired of having to screw with them on the Peewee. Great tips, thanks. Whenever I switch directions for a shift and move, I jam my knee and lower shin against the back of the chassis and brace the dolly as I turn. It will help a lot.
Azurgrip- Thanks for the insights. I used to push for Mark a few years ago (although I haven't talked to him in a while). I think I know how to get in touch with him (I may have his email address) to ask for some pictures. It's interesting how involved Mark has been with the design of the dollies at Chapman. The first show I did with him was when the Peewee 4 was just released. He (the DP) went to the rental house with me to check it out since he had had a lot to do with the design of the boards. He went through the cart discarding a lot of the "specialty" accessories saying, "You won't need this," I don't know what this does," etc. I lost touch with him after not being available a few times but I'll see if I can reach him.
D
D

tigger said...

i always use medium soft on the peewee and until recently medium soft track wheels on the outside and pneumatics on the inside with the hustler 4.
my new favorite is medium softs all round with the hustler it's so stable and still great for dance floor.
i would love to see chapman come out with a set of low profile pneumatics as i think the current ones are a bit too flexible, maybe a smaller side wall would help.
hey TD, to prevent chassis shake i put my foot under the back of the dolly and lift the front of my foot as hard as i can into the bottom of the chassis (my work shoes are all wrecked from this technique!) at the same time jamming my knee/ shin into the back of the dolly , it works well for me.
don't try this on the hustler 4 when doing a compound move though as the only place your foot contacts is the back end of the jib, big problem when you jib up or even bigger problem when you jib down and your foot is in the space the jib is about to occupy!
tigger

D said...

Thanks Tigger, I do the same thing although the first time I used the Hustler 4 and did a boom down in that position the back of the jib arm scared the crap out of me when it landed on my foot!

GHB said...

I use the same method as the other guys to turn in a static position during a dance floor move. Get your shin pressed up against the back of the dolly and pull the steering column toward you to stabilize the dolly and slowly turn the handle. That's about it. Another great trick I picked up is for when you have to change directions soon after you stop and you don't have time to turn slowly. As you slide into your mark...right as you're landing...turn the wheels in the direction you're going next. If you can practice this and get good at it, it's invaluable because you don't always have time to do the slow turn. This method can be tricky though because sometimes you fade off in that direction or maybe you're not in the right direction to correct quickly if you need to. It's a tough trick, but I find it totally invaluable, as I said. As D has said and what I think again is the purpose of this blog is that to be a good dolly grip you have to know more than the dolly. You have to know your lenses, you have to know the highlights of the dialogue of the scene you're shooting and you have to know your operator. You have to know that you can cheat a little with the wider lenses and you have to know when the operator is gonna let you get away with it. One of the biggest assets to my dolly pushing is getting familiar with the lenses and knowing exactly what the shot is trying to achieve when I can.

GHB said...

Oh and D, thanks for the compliments and it's really a pleasure to be a part of this great site. Talk to you soon.

Azurgrip said...

Following this sidetrack, when it comes to turning the steer bar with one hand (multi point compound moves), I have no trouble doing this on Chapman dollies, however, I can't do this with Fishers. I don't know if it's maybe I'm just weak in the wrist (no jokes please) or am I doing something wrong?

The Grip Works said...

Hi D,
Back after a break, I was in Assam over Christms and New Year. Seasons Greetings to all.
Azurgrip, I use the Fisher 10 for dancefloor often and it is tough on the wrists with one hand, but I find that if I hold the bar far enough to the end to get leverage it isn't so hard. Not as easy as the Hybrid, but the trick is to then be able to push in a straight line holding the bar at one end without letting it steer. Little choreography. But the 10 is a little stiffer than the Hybrid. I've never had the opportunity to use the Hustler unfortunately, so I can never comment when D waxes eloquent on its finer points :-)

GHB said...

Turning and booming is always a challenging task especially when it's a ninety degree turn. I think the only way to do it is to power through it and like i said before, let the inertia work for you. Get those wheels turned as you're landing so the dolly does some of the work for you. I'd have to say that that particular move is one of the reasons I've had wicked tendonitis in my left arm and sore knuckles on my index and middle finger by the end of the day. It's a tough move, but one that I think just takes a little power to get through. Using the inertia is the key.
I avoid Fisher dollies whenever possible so I can't speak of their performance for this move. It's been a long time since I had to use one on anything but a commercial.

D said...

I also have tendonitis in my left arm, as does the other dolly grip on my show. Strange. I hear this a lot about Fisher 10, that they are harder to turn and boom at the same time. I hadn't noticed it (like GHB, I don't usually use Fisher though). I used CB's Fisher on his show and didn't notice it even though I looked for it, although CB has the most tricked out, tuned up dolly I've ever seen, so his is in pristine shape.
good to see you back, Gripworks. Hope your holiday was good.
I seem to be having some computer problems so my posts may be a little spotty for the next few days, and I start shooting on Tuesday. Talk among yourselves.
D

CBGrip said...

Azur- Try using the Zep mold release spray, I borrowed some from a Hustler package I used a while back. When the tires on My 10 start making noise on the ABS I clean them with the Zep and problem gone! I really don't like the powder.

Wick said...

We could probably open a whole section on what form of voodoo we use for getting rid of squeaks. My standby is Lemon Pledge. CBG, I agree about powders of all types - I've gotten dollies back from powder fans that were in the rain, and you more or less wind up with plaster of Paris on the wheels and rails.

and Happy New Year, everybody!

D said...

I used (as did most Dolly Grips) Pledge for years. I changed to the Zep spray that Chapman sends out, that CBG spoke of, a few years ago. There's not near as much build up on the track or wheels. As for the powder-guilty as charged. I don't use it much, but it is the first thing I reach for on dance floor when I've got a lot of turns and can't get the squeak out. Set dressers love me.

D said...

BTW- the predominance of left arm tendinitis complaints have me suspicious. I've put a poll up about chronic injuries- check it out and let's see if there's a pattern.

Wick said...

D,

Interesting survey this week. You ought to add "All of the Above" to it! Maybe knee problems as well.

I'd speculate the left arm tendinitis is a result of the steering/pushing being left arm oriented due to the controls layout.

chris said...

turning your wheels in a static position is always a bit of an adventure like waiting for the right dialogue to go for it so if they squeek you are on the off camera dialogue.

if it is in combination with a move or crane i like to use the jib as a push bar to take a bit of the strain off my other hand turning the wheels.

it's not as scary as you think we have all done moves on track where you are pulling or pushing with the jib as you crane.

is this making sense

when i am turning in a static position i will get as far to the end of the handles on the steering bars and use just the base of my palms to turn the wheels kind of like when you need to loosen a rusted on bolt you attach a pipe to your wrench it just gets you out there adding more torque with less effort

i am a chapman guy and use soft wheels until i have to push through broken glass

don't like the new medium wheels too hard for dance floor

have not used pnuematics in 20 years why would ya

fisher dollies are good for two things

product shots on commercials and dead weight tying down 20x 20's

D said...

Ha Ha! Good one, but you've started it now. Thanks Chris. I think I understand what you're saying about pushing the jib. I do the same thing.

GHB said...

Pledge is the worst thing to use. And I only know this from experience, but like D said, it grabs every piece of dirt and grime and never goes away. Those of us who own our own track can attest that the last thing you want to do is wipe clumpy pledge off your rails every two days. The Chapman Zep-Par is great. Perfect tool for the respected application. I'm also guilty of using powder on dance floor. Plain and simple...it works. And set dressers hate me too.
I dig Chris' idea about using the jib for the push. It's a great idea, but again something you have to practice and get good at and also know what lenses you can get away with that on.
Lastly, and I apologize for fueling the fire, but fisher dollies also work perfectly for boat anchors, but when it's time to set sail, you should just cut the rope and leave them down there as a home for the sea life.

chris said...

oh the pledge

it's works great

but often the problem with pledge is when come of the track and do a move on the floor or dance floor

the initial squeek is unbearable as you make the first slow push

i have taken to instead of going to the powder to simply taking 4 pages of my sides and putting them under the wheels as i start the move

once you get started it's clear sailing

The Grip Works said...

A good use for sides I have to say !!
WOW !! I have to say that I'm a bit taken aback by the anti-fisher venom. As a user of the Hybrid and the 10 I cant quite get the depth of the problem. Is someone from Fisher listening ? Cary Clayton maybe? Wick maybe you can pass the word on for them to do a survey of Dolly grips. Maybe we get a 10 mark 2 :)

Azurgrip said...

I've discovered that soft tires can dry out and I have to relube them with Pledge. Generally if you are in and out of water I find they dry out.

D said...

Chapman and Fisher users in the States tend to have a little bit of a... rivalry for want of a better word, although that isn't exactly right either. Chapman users tend to really dislike the boom control on the 10, and the wheel design, while a lot of Fisher users tend to dislike the Chapmans for other reasons. When I started this site, as a Chapman user, I was much more biased in my writing against it, but decided to tone that way back and be more neutral, as both dollies have things to like and dislike, and a lot of really great Dolly Grips will use nothing but a Fisher. I just put it down to preference and try to be fair to both systems. I would like to see something new from Fisher in the evolution of the 10. They seem to have slowed way down on designing new models where Chapman seems to always be evolving. I'm always glad to hear from Fisher users like CB, Sanjay, and of course, Wick, so that we don't get all one sided. It just happens that I've been a Chapman user for upwards of 15 years (since switching from the 10) and most of my friends that are Dolly Grips are also. Having said that. I think the 10 would also be ideal for use in changing tires.

Wick said...

Sanjay, I'll pass it on. For those who didn't know: I'm more or less retired from gripping and run J. L. Fisher's European office. We have some stuff in the pipeline at Fisher, but I really can't say too much about it. I agree the machines need a lot done for field use. There's a lot of issues, and plenty of sides to the story, so I'm staying on the sidelines. I am interested in any serious criticism and critique. A mail that starts "Everything about your sh*t s*cks" won't even get a raised eyebrow as a response. Anything specific will be seriously addressed. Having said that, the process of making changes is glacial for a variety of reasons, most of which have to do with how we design and build stuff. I think D's on the right track - "horses for courses" as the English say. Some guys get used to one thing, some get used to another. And re: Pledge, we have guys here using WD40, water, flour, denatured alcohol, you name it. I'll check put Zep when I get to L.A. in April. Y'all be good now.

The Grip Works said...

WD 40 dissolves rubber !!! Id love to see the state of dolly wheels that come back after being "lubed" with flour !!! ha ha ha !! I use mold release spray as well. We dont get Zep in India, but there are many other brands, and the active ingredient is Silicone Lube, so Wick- you will find it in Germany 100%. I have another question. Has anyone used the Cinetech dollies? They have a model that is apparently similar to the Hybrid. I will be starting on a movie that shoots for 6 weeks in Corfu (island off the coast of Greece) and 4 weeks in Berlin. For Corfu they say this is the only dolly available. It is Italian (made in Rome)and apparently new. I will be going to do a gear check, but any info will be welcome.

GHB said...

I'm not a Fisher-hater, I just prefer Chapman. Can you tell us if the future of Fisher will have wheels that roll right up on track as opposed to either the wheel change or the skate wheels? I've used both dollies a lot and both perform well, but my major complaint is that there's an extra step with Fisher, one of which includes lifting the dolly. All Chapman dollies roll right up and are ready to work. I'd love to see Fisher come up with something. Last time I talked to someone there about that, four years ago, they said they had no plans to make a wheel like that.

Azurgrip said...

Fisher has had track wheels for a little while now. If you check their website and look under dolly accessories.

I would love to see Fisher remove the bogey (inner track) wheels. As I haven't seen square track in years, I find them in the way.

Wick said...

Sanjay, my point exactly. I also watched a grip use a pressure washer to clean a Panther dolly here one day. "No comment" as it wasn't my dolly. GHB, Fisher's policy on the wheels is that the company respects Chapman having come up with the split wheel design and even though the patents have elapsed, it would be kind of a cheap shot to copy it. We do have round track wheels now, and they're okay, but in my opinion it's one of our biggest weaknesses for all the reasons all you guys know and have already mentioned. We also have a jack (UDJ in our catalogue) for lifting the dolly for those wheel changes. Azur, I used the Bogeys on round track (Matthews, Egripment, & Moy),Master Track and GFM Track and of course on Onno's track. They work, so we leave them on. Agreed, they're not roll-on track wheels.

As to the Cinetech, if I recall correctly it weighs a ton, the compressor is noisier than others, it won't boom consistently (it'll slow down as the charge depletes), and probably won't track well on dance floor. If it's the same guys that made the Dario, it may start leaking at some point in the job.

tigger said...

hey sanjay, we have a couple of cinetech dollies here in dubai. they do different models, to compare to the peewee, their model is the dario and i think the bigger hybrid size one is called a hawk. generally they're not bad dollies the main problems are the steering geometry (you'd be mad to attempt dance floor with one, just repositioning camera can become a drama sometimes!) and the jib, it's smooth but has a very low weight loading capacity. watch out for the hawk as there are 3 or 4 jib options that all have different capacities starting as low as 50 kg max! our dollies do get very badly abused here but the cinetech dollies come off very badly, by far the most common problem is shifting from crab to conventional and being left with one wheel steering and unable to shift either way!!

danworx said...

Greetz everybody and a happy new year!

WD40 on the wheels of dollies... NO Comment!
I Started with talc/baby powder and use Silicone Spray now.
At ARRI Rental I got saBesto Silikon Spray from W├╝rth which works very good (even with very cold track that collects moisture very fast and therefore squeeks more).

I Really like the Round track Wheels on Fishers, they run very smooth.
I like to combine them with the soft compound wheels for indoor shooting.
Switching to full soft is done very fast so no problem here.
The bogeys have way to much drag so I try to avoid them whenever possible.
Also the round Track wheels seem to improve the stability of the 11 on track!


On Chapmans I prefer the Pneumatics. Haven't used the medium soft ones yet. The soft wheels i used where way to soft for Track use.

With the Euro Dollies (Panther/Magnum) I go for soft wheels indoors and Pneumatics for outdoor sets.


@ Wick:
I would use fishers more often if the Boom Control would be improved (more direct/precise as with the chapmans).
Also I would like to have the multi position level head without a leveller.
ARRI made a plate for me with a euro boss to replace the plate with the leveller on the head wich worked like a charm. No Mitchel Euro mix just pure Euro. It makes working with all the euro gear much easier. I don't like the adapters because you loose 10cm (the height of the levelling part) for nothing.

Greetz danworx

acraw said...

Hey Guys. I've been a Hybrid user for almost 20 years and have always used pneumatic tires, inside and out. Chapman has had some issues with the newest generation of pneumatics squeaking because they're made with 2 separate pieces of rubber that rub on each other if the tire isn't inflated all the way and since they'll lose pressure all the time they squeaked regardless of the floor surface and were impossible to stop without inflating them more. Chapman has fixed the problem by putting tubes into the tires and they're really great now, a much lower profile tire than the older ones. The wheels are larger also which makes it possible to use the clips to change tires.

The best way I've found to eliminate squeaks on dance floors is to use a small amount of Ivory soap rubbed onto the floor. It leaves very little residue, is invisible, and totally eliminates squeaks. I was taught this by an old friend who pushed dolly for many years, many years ago. I was wary at first because I thought it might be a slippery hazard but it really isn't. I would encourage those of you who
have had problems try it.

Wick said...

Daan,

We made a few adapters that go straight to the Euro Boss adapter, you may have gotten one through ARRI. Kiki also may have made his own. There will be more news on that issue b the summer. There's also some stuff going on with the boom controls (CB's dolly has what we're looking at, D.- that may be one reason you liked it), but one of the hurdles right now is making a practical field retrofit kit. We can't at present, and we don't really want to provide the new controls until we can handle the flood of people who'll want to "upgrade".

danworx said...

Great news Wick,

Will the new control be available on all models or just the ten to start with?

Greetz Dan

CBGrip said...

Hey Everyone! Fisher has done a great job with this new valve. I have been lucky to have used the same one for several years. I am using my regular Ten and was lucky enough to get an improved New valve on our Eleven (the BEST Eleven I have ever had).

Wick said...

CB,

Please please tell Carl & Allan and for that matter tell Jimmy. It would be great to share the love with other users, maybe D. would even get religion then ;)

Daan,

It'll be compatible with Tens and Elevens. Like I say, the main hitch as far as I know (nobody tells me nuthin') is working out how we'll do the upgrade on equipment that's far away from L.A.

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